Elaigwu: No anti-corruption war can be all encompassing

Prof. Jonah Isawa Elaigwu is the president, Institute of Governance and Social Research (IGSR) Jos. He spoke with ISA ABDULSALAMI AHOVI on the perceived lopsided war against corruption.

Do you agree with the notion that the war against corruption is lopsided?
My view is that it is impossible to start a big project like anti-corruption war and make it all encompassing. That is my first point. The second one is, don’t you think that Buhari has been very clear in the matter; ‘I am probing the last administration’, the Jonathan administration? If he is probing the Jonathan administration, it will be his first port of call before moving elsewhere. He is not hiding that. So, for me, if somebody is taking an action, judge him by his declaration.

Most regimes when they come, probe the immediate ones, anyway. They want the extent they can go behind. The nature of corruption is that it is so intricate that when you talk of probe, you eventually won’t do any work. Even the probe, especially, in Nigeria, will be enough to take all your time. So, as far as I am concerned, I think what he said is what normally people, who take over government say. The immediate government is the first target of probe and if they want to extend it, they can do so.

That was what happened in the case of the military, the National Security Adviser (NSA) and all that, they went up to 2007. They could have decided to go beyond. Actually, if they go very far back, I don’t know if they will be able to do any work in four years.

As far as I am concerned, the anti-corruption war is very useful. Even if it shows Nigerians the extent of the rot in the system, and what people do with public money and that no matter how highly placed a person, he or she can be brought low to account for it. That is a good lesson. Even if it is a journey of a thousand miles in our anti-corruption war, that is a good beginning. Let people know that they cannot continue to do what they used to do with impunity, and get away. I think that is the main signal of the war.

But some are saying active participants in previous administration, who moved to the APC, are not being probed, even though many still have skeleton in their cupboard?
I’m not in Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), neither am I in Buhari’s government. And as far as I am concerned, it does seem from the NSA probe, for example, that as it unfolds and widens, they mention your name, they pick you up. And I think they even picked a member of the All Progressives Congress (APC) from Kano. He refunded some money and promised to refund others.

So, it depends on for whom the bell tolls, as it was, or who is involved. If it involves you, they will call you, if it involves me, they will call me, and it keeps expanding. Critics of government must also accept that there is no way you are going to start a probe of corruption in Nigeria that some people will not feel alienated at the beginning. It is impossible. If anybody can tell me that it happens, then I will be looking at the community of angels. I don’t think there is any; otherwise, we won’t be talking about corruption.

Is the war on course?
How it goes on depends on government and government institutions. I think it is on. My worry is the structure; I mean the dynamics of its execution. There are three big hurdles: One, the judiciary. I believe that if you want this to move fast, you need to create special anti-corruption court. The way we are going can take 10 years to finish one case. And what those involved are waiting for is, let it drag on like everything, Buhari will go, it would just stultify. And to me, that is the wrong way to go. Let us establish Special Anti-Corruption Court.

Secondly, I also believe that the way we are taking it is going to take a very long time. I do not see why it is necessary to be so slow. Nigeria National Petroleum Company (NNPC) has not been probed. That is the crux, and centre of ‘corruption allegations’ in Nigeria. We have to go to ports and many other sectors. Now, my attitude is, why don’t you simultaneously, establish quietly, judicial or administrative panels so that, as the cases come up, they go to court. We have been on this for one year now. Dealing with NSA alone and its ramifications has taken one year, so, it is fair to assume that NNPC will take four years. So, the logistics and dynamics of implementation of the anti-corruption war worry me.

The third point that worries me is the fact that government is only concerned about those that have stolen the money. I think more important thing, at this point, is to put structures in place to prevent people from stealing new money, otherwise, when Buhari goes, another regime comes and probes Buhari and we go on wasting our time.

So, how can corruption be prevented?
This can be done through a number of schemes: political socialisation, civic lessons in schools, from primary to the university, political education of adults on TV and what have you. It will take a while. Okay, but I expect that even if it takes a while, it will have an impact.

I also think that there is a second phase to it and the second one is control and management. Control and management will be dealing with auditing structures in places. Those control and management structures will have to be established in each ministry, department and unit.

And then, thirdly is the issue of punishment. Those who have stolen get them and then punish them. But above all, we must always accept one thing. A system cannot go out punishing people without giving rewards to those who are offering services. If there are loyal, patriotic, honest Nigerians, they should be rewarded and recognised. Normally, national honours will do this, but nobody takes national honours seriously and more because they have been bastardised.

In his first coming, nobody questioned Buhari’s War Against Discipline, because he was a military man. But now, he is a politician, so, he will be questioned, and normally, even if you want to investigate a little thing in your family, you will see the number of allegations against you. You see, my attitude to this thing is, government should be very clear about what it wants to do. People should know that, they are just beginning. This is the first year. Allow them to do it. Whoever it touches, whether he or she is in PDP or APC or Labour Party or whatever, should account for it.

If at the end, they find that it is only PDP, then they will shout. Now, my question is, for those cases that we know in the news papers, many of them denied it and ended up coming back to make refunds. So, tell me, is it that these are not true? Let them get all the ones they get from PDP, and then they will get from APC and they will get from any other person involved, but let us start somewhere and this is my argument. We need to be fair in the process, but we need to start somewhere and there is no anti-corruption war that can be all encompassing, but you only try to make them as broad as possible to deal with the problems you have.

And I think the problem with War Against Indiscipline (WAI) too was that it did not target anything like economic and financial crimes. It was targeting our personal conduct and our life styles and our commitment. That is the difference.

In other words, not many people will share the value of any war against corruption at that point in time. But over time, the same people who are opposed to it today, will know its value if it is a proper policy and its dividends are clear. So, what we should be looking for are ways of fine-tuning the war against corruption in such a way that it is more effective.

The other point I will like to add is, maybe we should borrow from other countries like Malaysia; for example, if somebody steals, let us say, N10 million, why can’t government give the person condition such as, to spend 30 per cent on something or invest it in the country, otherwise, the person goes in? In other words, no money that was stolen is used outside. We must see the benefits here. Let us look at other ways of encouraging people to return money, why dissuading them from stealing.

If we can encourage some little part of productive behaviour and then the return of the rest of the money, it will also send the signal that you will not take any money away without being caught. The essence is efficacy of enforcement of law. If the system is efficient, none of the things that you and I are talking about will be taking place. There is no country in the world where there is no corruption, but it is reduced to a minimum, because of these checks we are talking about in the system. Let us put the checks in place. There is no need punishing people today and tomorrow, you see bigger things, because you forgot to put structures of control and management and engage in long-term socialisation and political education of adults on the vices of corruption.